The Truth About ‘jews4jesus’

This is a follow up about the Christian Evangelists who pose as ‘messianic jews’. The original post was called ‘The Missionary Position’.


This is to address a few queries I have received:


1 Messianics have of course every right to their own beliefs, rituals and practices.

They just don’t have any right to call it ‘judaism’.

Because it isn’t.


2 The Messianic movement is a very specific Christian Evangelical movement.

It does not represent all Christians. Indeed, many Christians have spoken out in condemnation of the Messianics and their lies when they pose as ‘jews’.

Tips For Countering The Lies Messianics Tell About Judaism:

Be warned before you start: Messianics relish the chance to debate Jews!

Their main aim is to convince *you* that yes, you ‘can remain Jewish and worship Jesus’. Now of cousre, this is a lie. But Messianics desperately need to believe it – it is the deceptive premise that underlies their entire ‘religion’.

The majority of Messianic groups get organised training in just *how* to debate genuine Jews. Former members of Messianic congregations often describe how they had to attend seminars and mock discussions in which they learned how to ‘disprove judaism’. Chances are, any Messianic that you meet, either online or in the ‘real world’ will know their bible inside out and upside down. Don’t let them distract you with scripture. Keep calm and keep stating the facts.


Here are some of the most common arguments that Messianics will come up with:

Messianic: “lots of Jews have now found Jesus, and are Jewish Christians”


FACT: A Jew who becomes a Christian = a Christian. Nobody can be both Jewish and Christian: it’s a theological contradiction. The two faiths contradict one another on almost everything.

A Jew who adopts Christianity as their religion is an EX Jew.

They are not ‘a jew for jesus’ any more than a Hindu who becomes a Christianity is a ‘hindu for christ’.

Judaism alone gets to define Jewish identity.

Judaism does not permit dual religious identity.

You are a Jew OR you are a Christian.

Not both.


Messianic: “Lots of Jews are ethnically or racially Jewish, but Christian by faith.’

Note: This is one of the most common arguments used by Messianics.

FACT:No such thing as being ‘racially’ Jewish. Jews are not a ‘race’.

It was Hitler that tried to persuade the world that Jewish people were a separate race but it was a lie then, and it is a lie now.

You can’t change your race, but you can change your faith; many Gentiles convert to Judaism, thus proving it is not a ‘race’.

Nor is Judaism an ‘ethnicity’. How can it be? Which one ‘ethnicity’ unifies all Jews?

An Indian Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Japanese Jew. A Japanese Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Black Ethiopian Jew.

A Black Ethiopian Jew is not the same ethnicity as a Swedish caucasian Jew.

There are Jews of *all* ethnicities!

And what we share is the Jewish religion. A person cannot be part of both the Jewish and Christian religions.


Messianic: “Messianic ‘jews’ are simply Jews who know the truth about Jesus.”


FACT: 98% of Messianics were *literally* never Jews to start with. Not via birth. Not via faith. Not via theology. Not via worship. Not via heritage.

If they aren’t Jewish according to Judaism’s criteria, then they are not Jewish – period.

Christianity does not get to REdefine Jewish identity.

Judaism and ONLY Judaism gets to define JEWISH identity. Just as Christianity and only Christianity gets to define Christian identity.


Messianic: ‘But Jesus was Jewish – so why don’t Jews worship and accept him?’

FACT: Woody Allen is Jewish as well. Does that mean if *he* claimed to be the maschiach we should believe him?

Let’s say Woody Allen did declare that he was the Jewish messiah. Let’s say a small group of Jews believed him and began worshipping him.

Would they still be practising Judaism?

Answer: no, of course not!

Now apply the same logic to Jesus.

Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon faith, defined himself as a ‘Christian’. Apply the same logic – shouldn’t all Christians worship him….?

Actually, the easiest way to think of this is:

The religion of Jesus = Judaism; he was Jewish

The religion about Jesus = Christianity; Christians worship Jesus


Messianic: ‘Religion is a personal thing. I have every right to define myself as Jewish.’

FACT: You don’t have any ‘right’ to hijack the very word ‘jew’ and then lie about what it represents.

Judaism has defined Jewish identity the same way for thousands of years. You don’t get to REdefine ‘judaism’ to suddenly INclude worshipping Jesus.

I can wake up tomorrow and announce I’m a Native American Indian! Does that make it true? Do I then have the ‘right’ to MISrepresent what Native American Indians stand for, in public forums?No, of course not. And you don’t have any ‘right’ to do it with Judaism!

Words have meanings.

And ‘jew’ means:

– someone born to a Jewish mother who has not since joined another religion

– someone who has converted to Judaism and has not later joined another religion



Messianic: ‘Jesus was Jewish. Therefore if I worship him, I’m Jewish as well.’

FACT: The ‘logic’ here is so flawed it’s almost amusing. Almost.

The facts are crystal clear: if you worship Jesus as ‘christ’ you are a *Christian*.

Let’s say Adam Sandler declared himself the Jewish messiah. If you believed him, would that make you Jewish?

Answer: no, of course not! Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism and always has been. Judaism was a complete and fulfilling faith for thousands of years before Jesus was even a twinkle in Joseph’s eye.

Worshipping any human as ‘god’ is forbidden in Judaism. It is idolatry.


Messianic: ‘The ‘old testament’ refers to Jesus again and again. Jews are just too stubborn to see it!”’

FACT:Given that the OT is a purely Christian text, yes, it probably does point towards Jesus.

The OT was produced by the Church; it is a MIStranslated, REorganised and REinterpreted, Christianised version OF the Jewish Tanakh.

Jews study and read the Tanakh in the original Hebrew. We don’t use any translation. And in the original Hebrew, Jesus is nowhere to be found. If he appears in the OT, it’s because the Church put him there.

* (note: you can find a detailed list of these MIStranslations in the Scripture section of this blog)


“jews for jesus”

Sooner or later someone will ask you about the infamous group ‘jews4jesus’. This is the most aggressive and well known of all the Messianic groups. Let’s be crystal clear:

‘jews4jesus’ is a Christian group. It was founded by Martin Meyer, an ordained Baptist minister.

Baptists don’t get to REdefine Judaism. Nor do Baptists get to start a ‘new jewish sect’ that practises Christianity!

Usually, Martin Meyer goes by the name Martin ‘Rosen’. He apparently feels it sounds more ‘jewish’. And at times, he claims that his parents were Orthodox Jews. This may or may not be true. Either way, it’s utterly irrelevant. Even if he started out a Jew, Martin Meyer exercised his right to leave Judaism, and to convert to Christianity.

Among the members of ‘jews4jesus’ there are a few former Jews. The key word here is of course: former.

If a few Jews convert to Islam – does Islam become somehow ‘jewish’?

No, of course not.

If a group of Jews become Hindus – does Hinduism now equal ‘judaism’?

No, obviously not.

Same applies to Christianity. Just because a few EX Jews are now Christians, this does not make Christianity somehow ‘jewish’.

Be aware: members of ‘jews4jesus’ are slick, quick and very practised at answering Jews who are trying to expose their lies.

One of the group’s favourite claims is:

”The original followers of Jesus were ‘messianic jews’. We’re no different’.

FACT: only a tiny sect of Jews ever followed Jesus. And the minute they affirmed belief in the ‘resurrection’ and in the notion that Jesus was anything BUT a normal mortal man, they were effectively *leaving* Judaism.

And the original followers of Jesus never practised Christianity because it did not exist until long after Jesus died. The rituals and beliefs of ‘jews4jesus’ has little in common with those who were part of the sect headed up by Jesus.

You might also like to point out that even if Jews were the first disciples of Jesus, it’s irrelevant. Consider: The first Australians were Brits. Does that mean that today’s Aussies get to REdefine British identity, customs and laws?

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4 thoughts on “The Truth About ‘jews4jesus’

  1. HI RA

    Many thanks for your post 🙂

    I’ll try to respond to your points one by one; you have raised some excellent ones that I think are relevant to many Christians seeking to understand Jesus and the nature of his Jewish faith.


    1 ” And a friend of mine once said that he believed that reformed Judaism is what Jesus had in mind.”

    I agree with your friend 🙂

    Jesus, from what I can gather, wanted the spirit of Judaism to be upheld but not always the letter of the Jewish Laws. However that being said, it’s interesting to note that his stance on some things, such as divorce, was a very rigid one and identical to that of the Pharisees.

    But I’ve always thought that if Jesus was alive today, then Reform Judaism is possibly the closest to some of his ideas and teachings.


    2 – But, wouldn’t they have still followed some Jewish practices and customs while believing that Jesus is the Messiah. I guess I am just wondering what the early believers in Jesus (the early church) looked like. what their beliefs were besides the belief in Jesus.

    The very first, earliest followers of Jesus were Jews, yes. Remember that Jesus was one of many young Jewish men claiming to be ‘maschiach’. So his first followers were just Jews who happened to think he was the maschiach.

    It was not until after Jesus was killed by the Romans that things changed. Once he had died, without fulfilling the Jewish prophecies, then it was clear he was not the Jewish maschiach. But then along came Paul – and Paul wanted to attract Romans and Pagans so he started teaching that Jesus ‘rejected’ the Torah etc.

    It was the non Jewish followers who joined this ‘new’ movement, headed by Paul, that were not Jewish and who started the path to what we recognise today as Christianity. There were not that many Jews in this actual movement. Paul and his followers probably still held to some aspects of Judaism but less and less, because Paul’s teachings directly contradicted all that Judaism stands for.

    So in terms of wanting to know what the earliest followers of Jesus did and believed, the ones who followed him while he lived, were still Jews, practising Judaism.

    It was after Jesus died that things changed – and anyone who then believed in the ‘Resurrection’ had moved so far from Jewish belief that they were now – even if born Jewish – effectively members of what was becoming Christianity.

    3 – Is there a book you could recommend that would expain the beliefs, rituals, and customs of Jews and explain all of the different forms of Judaism? And a book that would compare and contrast the jews4jesus movement with actual Judaism?

    Contrasting ‘jews4jesus’ or ANY ‘messianic jewish’ group with Judaism is simpler than may sound 🙂 Because all of these groups, when you actually examine their beliefs, are practising some form of Christianity. What they add are then Jewish terms and rituals that were never meant to be used in the ways these groups do.

    But ALL Messianic groups believe in:
    – virgin birth
    – Jesus as messiah
    – holy trinity
    – resurrection
    – original sin

    As you probably are aware, none of these beliefs have ever been present in Judaism.

    In terms of the various Jewish groups:
    – Orthodox
    – Conservative
    – Reform
    – Progressive

    ALL Jewish groups hold the same core beliefs:
    – G-d is ONE
    – all humans are equal
    – all humans can know G-d
    – the Jewish maschiach has not arrived yet
    – no such thing as ‘original sin’
    – no ‘virgin birth’

    The Jewish groups only differ in the level of adhering to the various rules such as keeping kosher, observing the Jewish Shabbat/Sabbath. All groups hold to the core Jewish tenet that if the mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish.

    I’m trying to think of some books and will add something on this later. Meanwhile there is a lot of great info at sites such as:
    http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/

    I’ll add some other sites later 🙂

    “if I end up deciding to incorporate any of the Jewish practices or beliefs I will just say “I agree with Jews regarding such and such…but I am myself not Jewish.” Is that what you had in mind? Like, if Messianic Jews didn’t claim to be Jews and only said they agree with certain doctrines that the Jews held would they then be all right by you?

    Honestly, my bottom line here is, since I was raised to believe in Jesus I would like to know more about his religion. Does that make sense?”?

    YES – your last comments makes PERFECT SENSE!

    I think it is entirely logical that as a Christian, who worships Jesus, you seek to understand not only his faith but how it relates and compares/contrasts to yours.

    And I really do appreciate that you are seeking these answers in a manner that respects BOTH of our faiths 🙂

    And yes – you are spot on in that my ONLY issue with “messianic jews” is that they claim to be Jews, and represent Judaism, when they don’t. If they simply called themselves Messianics, or Hebrew Christians (as they used to refer to themselves) I would not have any issue with them whatsoever!

    I hope I’ve been able to address some of your comments and please feel very welcome to post again 🙂

  2. Hello Jew with a view,

    I was raised Southern Baptist and my father is a minister. My mom has recently started attending a “Messianic Jewish” fellowship. And a friend of mine once said that he believed that reformed Judaism is what Jesus had in mind.

    I noticed you said that though the early followers of Jesus were Jewish but were no longer Jewish once they started believing in Jesus. I get that. But, wouldn’t they have still followed some Jewish practices and customs while believing that Jesus is the Messiah. I guess I am just wondering what the early believers in Jesus (the early church) looked like. what their beliefs were besides the belief in Jesus.

    I really don’t know how to explain what I am asking. I guess, is there a book you could recommend that would expain the beliefs, rituals, and customs of Jews and explain all of the different forms of Judaism? And a book that would compare and contrast the jews4jesus movement with actual Judaism?

    Don’t worry. Per your request, if I end up deciding to incorporate any of the Jewish practices or beliefs I will just say “I agree with Jews regarding such and such…but I am myself not Jewish.” Is that what you had in mind? Like, if Messianic Jews didn’t claim to be Jews and only said they agree with certain doctrines that the Jews held would they then be all right by you?

    Honestly, my bottom line here is, since I was raised to believe in Jesus I would like to know more about his religion. Does that make sense?

  3. HI S.A. 🙂

    That’s great to hear. I believe that of all the Christian denominations, it is perhaps Catholicism which has taken the biggest steps towards forming a genuine, mutually respectful connection with Judaism.

    I know that on several online forums, I’ve had some really good conversations with Catholics and have almost always found them firstly to have a great knowledge of Judaism, and secondly have found them far more respectful than a few other denominations. I’m aware that the southern Baptists, in particular, have declared it ‘open season’ on trying to convert Jews…!

    Good to get your comments 🙂

  4. I’m a Catholic (in the U.S.) and according to the bishops *here* evangelizing to the Jews is NOT to be done. Our faith is supposed to see the Jews as God’s chosen people and therefore “saved.” I realize that there are Catholics and other Christians that don’t have the respect they SHOULD. I’d like to hope they are the minority.

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